How to Know If You're Moving Enough (Without the Rules or the Tracker) with Cadence Dubus

I sat down with Cadence Dubus, founder of Brooklyn Strength, host of the Busybody Podcast, and we talked about why midlife movement gets so complicated when you’ve been trained to chase fitness rules, perfect routines, and a specific body. We unpack how to rebuild trust so movement supports real life, not a pass-fail scoreboard.

• Why the "one size fits all" fitness world was never designed for bodies that cycle, fluctuate, and change (like ours)
• How metrics like step counts and Apple Watch data may be creating noise instead of information
• The difference between being a baker (give me a formula!) and a cook (I'll figure it out), and why both are valid starting points
• What it actually looks like to work with someone on movement from a somatic, body-centered approach
• How to know if you're doing "enough," and why your body's cravings are more reliable than any tracker
• Why joy and play might be the most underrated missing ingredients in midlife fitness culture

About Cadence Dubus: Cadence Dubus is the founder of Brooklyn Strength, a 16-year-old fitness and wellness company offering movement coaching and courses virtually and in person. She is also the host of the Busybody Podcast. Cadence's work is rooted in somatic movement, body autonomy, and helping people find sustainable fitness practices that fit their actual lives. Find her on Instagram at @brooklynstrength and at www.brooklynstrength.com

Related episodes you'll love:

• How to Un-Diet Your Relationship with Movement in Midlife with Christine Chessman
• New Moves in Menopause with Dr. Maria Luque 

📚 I wrote a book! Eat To Thrive During Menopause is out now!  Order your copy today and start thriving in midlife.

Looking for more about midlife,  menopause nutrition, and intuitive eating? Click here to grab one of my free guides and learn what I've got "on the menu" including my 1:1 and group programs. https://www.menopausenutritionist.ca/links

Transcript

The Thought That Can Stop Now

Cadence Dubus 0:00

I think you can have those like watershed moments where someone says something or you see something or you just catch yourself doing a thing that you've been doing your whole life and you go, oh my god, am I literally gonna look at my thighs and have this thought till I'm 105? Like when does that stop? It could actually just stop right now.

Jenn Salib Huber 0:18

Welcome to the Midlife Feast, the podcast that helps you make sense of your body, your health, and menopause in the messy middle of midlife. I'm Dr. Jen Salie Pieber, intuitive eating dietitian, a naturopathic doctor, and author of Eat to Thrive During Menopause. Around here, we don't see midlife and menopause as problems to solve, but as invitations to live with more freedom, trust, and joy. Each week you'll hear real conversations and practical strategies to help you feel like yourself again. Eat without guilt, and turn midlife from a season of survival into a season of thriving. I'm so glad you're here. Let's dig in. It might surprise you to learn that many years ago I was a Jillian Michaels devotee. And uh, it's really hard to say those words because I am not a fan of that all-or-nothing shame-based approach. That much you probably know about me, or if you're new here, you should definitely know that about me. Whether it's we're

Breaking Up With Fitness Perfectionism

Jenn Salib Huber 1:18

talking about food or movement or mindset or just life. There's way too much going on for anything to be perfect ever. But especially when it comes to movement. So after I broke up with Gillian Michaels, I did nothing for a couple of years, and this was all at the same time that I was learning intuitive eating and kind of trying to find my way with a relationship with my body that was based on trust. But movement was a little bit harder to come back to because it still felt like there was a formula I should follow. And that formula in my head sounded like 30 minutes, six days a week, every week of the year, and otherwise it's not enough. So if you feel like you're stuck in this messy middle of not quite fitting into the mold of what you thought fitness needed to look like, then I think you're gonna love this conversation with Cadence Debus. And Cadence and I have a conversation about what it actually means to know that you're doing enough, um, why metrics like you know, step counts and trackers and things like that may not be giving you the information that you need, and what it can look like when you have a relationship with movement that isn't based on anyone else's needs except your own. So thanks so much to Cadence for joining me. Um as always, I always love to hear what you think of these episodes, and if you, you know, if there's anything that you particularly enjoyed or stood out, let me know. Hi, Cadence. Welcome to the Midlife Feast. Hey, I'm so glad to be here. I'm really excited to have this conversation with you. We talk a lot about fitness on the podcast. I've had a few people recently and over the years, and I always try and include different perspectives around movement and fitness because as we as we get into midlife, there's a lot of, let's say, pressure, let's say recommendations for people to, you know, move their bodies.

How One Size Fitness Was Built

Jenn Salib Huber 3:15

But I also feel like it is such, um, it's such an important tool in our toolbox for mental health, physical health, like all the reasons. But it can also be hella complicated for people who may have spent a lot of time in fitness culture, fit spo culture. Um, and I think that you know a little bit about that.

Cadence Dubus 3:33

I do, I do.

Jenn Salib Huber 3:35

So please introduce yourself.

Cadence Dubus 3:38

Um, I'm Caden Stabuse. I'm the founder of Brooklyn Strength, which is a 16-year-old fitness and wellness company that started as two, one and then two storefronts in Brooklyn. And then I re-imagined the whole enterprise in 2020 and have been able to continue to build my business virtually. Um, I'm based in Brooklyn, but I teach people all over the world. Um, and I'm also the host of Busybody Podcast, which is also where we met. Great episode.

Jenn Salib Huber 4:05

Yeah, and that was I that was really the first time that I was introduced to you. And when I meet such like-minded people, I'm always like, How did I not know this person before? So yeah, so in today I want to talk about something that anybody in any age group can relate to, but certainly in midlife, of not fitting into the one size fits all fitness world. And I'd love to hear a little bit about maybe how you see that. Like when I say one size fitness world as a fitness trainer, what does that bring up?

Cadence Dubus 4:43

Um this is such a rich topic, and it's something that I think about a lot because I think um, so I'm about to be 44, and it was really my generation that were kind of the first women to be able to go into a gym without even considering that we weren't welcome there, really. It was women bodybuilders in like the 80s that broke the doors open because literally gyms used to be men-only spaces, and we could talk like about how like there's a whole strain of sort of female quote unquote fitness that is essentially because women weren't allowed to be working out and we weren't allowed to be building muscle or kind of doing endurance sports. I mean, women were only allowed to literally join marathons very recently in the late 70s, early 80s, um, as well. There weren't even women's running shoes until very recently. Like, we don't really think about this, like sports bras weren't invented until actually still very recently. Like, all of this stuff were barriers. Um, but thanks to some very powerful women in the 80s who were just like, I want to lift weights too. Suddenly, gyms are are now these like full service places where there's um aerobic equipment and weight rooms and you know, like steam rooms and all these things. And um my generation, and I literally remember working out with my high school best friend, we would like go to the gym and like run on the treadmill, and then we'd do some weights and all this stuff. And that was still very new. I mean, and also we were like still the minority in the weight room for sure. But now if I walk into a gym, I mean, it's like 50-50. I mean, there's just tons of women and women doing really powerful stuff and like feeling a lot of uh agency there, which is super cool. But I think the history of like how we got here still has like some um very narrow routes of like what fitness is, who's allowed to do fitness. And I think a lot of people don't consider that like your your on the corner orange theory or whatever is is really perpetuating a lot of that, whether they mean to or not, but that's so often what happens um when like mass consumerism gets involved.

Jenn Salib Huber 6:56

So about that because just like with bodies and the you know, this ideal body look, whatever

Checklists And The Myth Of Doing It Right

Jenn Salib Huber 7:05

that is, because it doesn't exist, correct? There's often this image that comes up when people hear, I want to get fit.

Cadence Dubus 7:13

Correct.

Jenn Salib Huber 7:14

That not only does it have a look, but that there's a formula that you follow, essentially, right?

Cadence Dubus 7:21

Yeah, and a series of like checkboxes of especially like my my um constant irk is the New York Times' like little fitness, like that pops up my inbox, like, are you getting enough whatever, folic acid hours of sleep? And then literally my clients will say, Should I be worried? They just did a thing like adult women should be able to do like nine push-ups or something like very random. Oh my god, the amount of people that were like messaging me, like, I I'm not sure I could do that. I thought I was really fit. I'm just like, oh, there are so many factors involved in being able to do a full push-up, including that you had wrist surgery last year, like let's put ourselves in context.

Jenn Salib Huber 8:02

Like, yeah, and it brings up this idea that that, like, okay, if I follow A, B, C, then I will get to D. And again, just this idea of like a prescriptive formulaic approach, right? Yeah. And I think that that might feel accessible to certain people in certain bodies with certain privilege and accessibility and mentality things.

Cadence Dubus 8:24

Some people love following directions. Some people, as I would say, are bakers and not cooks. You know, give me a list of ingredients, I'll put them together, and I'll just focus on that. Personally, I'm a cook and not a baker. That formula immediately, I want to rebel and run away from that.

Jenn Salib Huber 8:38

Oh my gosh, I love that. I love analogies so much. Listeners on the podcast are probably rolling their eyes, like, oh no, Jen's got a new analogy now. Um, but that is exactly it. Like you've got you can be a baker and that's great. And I bake, I can bake, but I'm much more of a cook and I don't really love following, I don't like the need to follow a set of rules in order for it to turn out.

Cadence Dubus 9:01

Totally, totally. And and I would say when it comes to mainstream fitness, to bring cadences like low-key communist anarchist thread that runs behind my podcast and a lot of my teaching. You know, we often are really being subtly trained to be obedient, right? Like that's so much of what Western education looks like. Um, sit in school all day, learn to be quiet, raise your hand if you have bodily needs, like you're gonna faint or you have to go to the bathroom. Um, how dare you take care of your own body with agency? Um and so, even in the fitness world, there's this like follow this formula and you will achieve perfection. And if you can't follow the formula, clearly you're a failure and you're terrible at life, you know, and it's all your fault. Let's not talk about how you like already are working two jobs and you have three kids, and they one of them has dietary restrictions and like you're not a professional chef, but now you have to make food for everyone, and like, you know, all of these other things, slash there's no social support, um, at least in the US, definitely other countries, probably where you're living, there's a lot more assistance. But um I think like to to just remember that that like a lot of literally like fad fitness

When Trackers Become A Pass Fail Test

Cadence Dubus 10:15

is very much about everyone becoming the same and performing the same, and like what is the performance of sameness? And this is the thing that I also um try to bring people's attention to when we're looking at metrics, and people are now because of Apple watches, and so people are like addicted to these metrics. And I'm like, is our goal sameness every day forever? Like, is that literally what you want to do? Because that does sound like a factory worker from 1954, which is not the lifestyle that I'm looking for. I don't want to assemble the same car handle 17,000 times a day, seven days a week for the rest of my life, you know? But someone can get addicted to looking at their little Apple Watch, like, I didn't do my steps, I haven't, but my heart rate is different. Blah blah blah. And like what is the value of that actually? And it is literally like anti-life. It is anti-the diversity, the flexibility, the resilience, and just like having a life, like someone interrupts you. This is my favorite. It's not even an analogy, but I'm always just like, do people not have friends? Like, even this morning, we have a house guest. If I was a person that was like, every morning I get up and I do my 35 minutes of yoga and then I go for my three-mile run. We literally have a house guest that I would like to spend time with, which means that this morning, before this podcast, I was standing in my kitchen chatting with my friend. So that would have interrupted my my very important early morning fitness routine, forever lost, and now all my metrics are off for the day, you know? Like, but I'm like, I think it's better for my life to socialize and enjoy the people that I enjoy, you know? And I do think that really gets lost.

Jenn Salib Huber 11:57

I'm so glad you brought that up. I'm so glad that we've already taken a little tangent because this whole idea of sameness, of like doing the same thing every day on repeat, is one of the unattainable standards that applies to both food and movement that leaves so many people feeling stuck.

Cadence Dubus 12:18

Especially people in female bodies or like female hormone bodies. Yes.

Jenn Salib Huber 12:22

A hundred percent. And you know, we've we've done these kinds of things in the feaster community, um, in my group community, where it will say, like, okay, let's what would it look like to take your watch off for a week or two?

Cadence Dubus 12:34

Seriously.

Jenn Salib Huber 12:35

And initially the anxiety of, but I won't know how much I've moved, I won't know if I've moved enough, is really uncomfortable. But pretty quickly, the peace that comes from not feeling like that judgment is just like one glance away, yeah, is pretty powerful. You know, and it um I mine broke, I think it was like 2018. Um, I had an old school Fitbit, but it had the chest strap to monitor my heart rate, and I used to do all the things. Uh, but thankfully 2016 is when I started my escape plan from diet and fitness culture. And I remember when the battery died, because you you know didn't last as long as they do now, and making that conscious choice of I'm not replacing the battery.

Cadence Dubus 13:24

Yeah.

Jenn Salib Huber 13:25

Uh and I could never, and and my kids hate it, but it's the one hill that I've died on with them that they will not wear smartwatches. They will not wear it. Good, agreed. It's the only hill I'm dying on with them. But I'm just like, you don't need more data. You don't need more data. Your nervous system does not want that. Anyway, that was one tangent, so I'm glad you brought that up.

Cadence Dubus 13:47

Yeah, let me just add to that a bit too, because so something that I often talk about. Um, so I don't, I don't um like quote unquote do weight loss, you know, like I'm not joined my program for whatever. Um, I have had people come to me saying, blah, blah, blah, life things have changed. You know, there was a death in the family, I put on a lot of weight. You're the only person I would want to work with as I like get back to my pre, you know, whatever they had previous things that were working for them and they're want to gently go return. Um, but what I always tell people is uh changing your body drastically is like 400-level body awareness and connection. Um, and similarly, like getting metrics, you need to know why you're doing that. So there's a reason. Like, I literally um I've been doing longer distance running, I've run a few half marathons, and this spring I was training for another one, and then I kind of had a like this kind of weird fatigue moment, blah, blah, blah, blah thing. And so I reached out to a colleague and she was like, Have you ever used a chest monitor? And I immediately was like, I don't want to do metrics. And she was like, What if we just got a couple weeks of data so that you could go back to your running practice and we would have a you could probably sense when your fatigue. She was like, I have a feeling you maxed out on your heart rate. But she was like, we could see what happens and then we could stop using it. And I was like, that I love. Let's just do this for a little bit. You know, let's you could use your step counter for one week of your average daily life just to give you info, like, oh, I really thought on Thursdays I'm on my feet a lot more. Turns out I'm not. That's interesting. I will do with that what I may. I might just go, whatever. I guess I don't walk around a lot on Thursdays. Or you can be like, maybe I'll just add a little afternoon walk between here and there. But this idea of like constantly tracking metrics, just like calorie counting or something, is just this maddening maze that I think like we are very vulnerable as humans with our brains to this kind of like patterning, you know, conditioning, literally being conditioned like like rats in a cage. And so you get addicted to the looking at the metric and the like praise or the the little like failure button or whatever, as opposed to using it for useful information of just being like, oh, look at that. My heart rate is going up more than I thought it would when I run uphill. That's interesting. Let me go back and speak with an expert, my colleague, to be like, How should I be training so that that doesn't happen? And then I let me throw this thing away.

Jenn Salib Huber 16:33

Yeah, and that's a really great example. I often will say to you, like, well, if somebody, you know, people say, Should I track my fiber for a while? Should I track my this? And I'm like, Well, what are you gonna do with that data? Yeah. Um, and

Using Data For Insight Not Judgment

Jenn Salib Huber 16:45

is it that you are going to action it and then move forward? Or are you going to use it to measure and judge your goodness? Which is really what most people are like, if I'm being good, I'm hitting these targets. Correct. Versus, I don't know if I'm getting enough fiber. I want to keep track of my fiber for a week or two, and then I'll know where to fill in the blanks. Like those are two very different situations. So it's not all or what all or nothing thinking. It's just that most of the time, I don't think people are getting the information from that data or using it in the way like you and I are talking about.

Cadence Dubus 17:22

Yeah, and to and to just kind of root this again in like bodies, I feel like what also happens is we already live in a world, especially in like uh of woman femme presenting body, where we're always getting outside judgment and we're really measuring our worth and the value of our body and the actions that we're taking in our lives based on kind of like outside response. And then you put a metric on yourself, and now you have this like kind of constant like CNN stream of you know pass or fail. And I think my work is always in trying to get people to feel connected to their own body, feeling their own body, able to literally check in with themselves. So, you know, if you're a client of mine, I have a lot of clients that have poor night's sleeps for a whole variety of reasons, from you know, menopause to just like, I have a new mom client, you know, all these things. I don't want you waking up looking at your watch, and your watch is like, you have, you know, some of them are like, you are not recovered, you are not allowed to do like X amount of activity. And it's like, okay, so my mom that has like a newborn and a three-year-old, she's like, should she just lay in bed? She's not recovered enough to run around after her kids. But it like gives you this, this pre, it's like standing up in front of your class presentation and going, guys, I really didn't work on this very hard. It's gonna be bad, which now everyone is like, I guess it's gonna be bad, right? Versus I want my client to be able to sense it in their body and go, wow, I was up a lot with the baby. But actually, I feel, I feel relaxed today. I have a nice day ahead. I'm feeling pretty good. It's a sunny day. You know, I'm gonna have a cup of tea, I'm gonna have a well-rounded breakfast, and I'm just gonna, I'm gonna head out there with trust in my body. But I think like we're already built into the society that teaches us not to trust our body. Please trust outside, you know, f give it, give all your agency to outside forces and judgment already. And now you have a metric being like, and also this tech device that doesn't take into account the rest of your life and your own like ability to just have a resilient frame of mind. Or like, I'm someone, my whole family suffers with insomnia. I function amazingly on very little sleep. Believe me, my partner can't, he one less hour of sleep and he's like passed out at four in the afternoon. I'm like, woo, I'm doing great, you know? I don't ever want something tracking my sleep and telling me how terrible my body is day to day. Because I'm like, I feel great. I feel great. I'm not aging early. I have a client who's 87, she has terrible night sleep her whole life. And I always say to her, You're my inspiration. You're doing great, you're healthy, you've got your full cognitive powers, you've had insomnia forever. Every I've known her for 20 years, she's never slept well, and I'm like, look at you, 87, doing great.

Jenn Salib Huber 20:10

Yeah, and I mean the outsourcing of data is definitely one thing, but also is it, you know, is it actually information? You know, we want we want information to that makes decisions easier to make, right? Yeah. Um, I had somebody this week, and I don't know what system or whatever thing she has, but she said that when she went to bed, it told her that she was at risk for under-training. And then when she woke up for over-training, and then when she woke up in the morning, it told her she was at risk of undertraining. And she was like, guys, come on. What am I supposed to do with that? So in that case, the information that she was getting, the data she was getting was not making the decision process any easier. It was actually adding noise to it, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, what I would like to talk a little bit about is kind of the parallel of a situation that I see a lot where people spent a lot of time in diet culture following rules, the diet of the day from like 1983 on, or whatever it is. And so maybe they're more bakers, like they're they're used to following rules, they like that. But when they're told that, you know, they're gonna try cooking instead of baking for the first time, they're really excited at first because they're like, I can do anything, and you know, I can mix and match whatever I want, but it starts to feel a little bit chaotic, and then they get scared, and then they're like, actually, I don't know how to do this, I'm just gonna go back to what I know, which is following a set of rules. And so, you know, what we were talking about at the beginning, people not fitting into this one size fits all fitness. I think I know I

Trust Takes Time And Needs Support

Jenn Salib Huber 21:40

hear a lot of people who have that similar, I don't know what to do if I'm not following a plan. Yeah. Um, and I'm I'm sure you do too. Am I right?

Cadence Dubus 21:48

Yeah, absolutely. Um, well, the first thing I want to always bring people's mind attention to is one's recovery from things, it like at base level will. Probably take a decade, you know, just to start out, just to be real. And that doesn't mean that you are gonna stop your like slim fast shake diet and for 10 years be in constant struggle or have your weight going up and down and up and, you know, it's not 10 years of chaos, but it could be two years of stopping and starting and stopping and starting. It could be six months of feeling totally lost and frustrated and looking for guidance and you know, just feeling really down on yourself. It could be two years of really thinking you figured it all out and this program is working, and then you got super sick with something and just like had a series of events, like sick, and then you moved, and then blah, blah, blah, and everything went out the window, and you thought you had it all figured out, and now you feel super frustrated again. I think truly like building agency is about building trust, and trust literally takes time, and you can't just be like, I'm no longer dieting, I'm free, like in one day. You have to like you know, yeah. I mean, I think, you know, saying that, I do also really believe in like radical shift. Like, I think for me personally, honestly, when um Trump was first elected, I had like my brain went blue, and I just was, I thought that I had already healed my kind of internalized misogyny and that I need to work out to look a certain way. And when that happened and misogyny became very mainstream in the US, where it was very accepted to say horrible things about women. Um I realized that there was still this like 15% of my thought process that was like, as I would say it, was like doing cardio cuz boys. You know what I mean? That's how I heard it in my head. I was like, oh, there is a little part of me that when I go for a run, it's like, cuz boys. So I did in one day go, whoa, how do I not, how do I just like excavate that for my body? And it and what I did was for about six to eight months, I literally did no cardio and I stopped doing all exercise that was like extremely vigorous. I literally was just um doing pilates and stretching and just really dropping into myself and kind of doing this, like, you know, the the ball drops all the way down and like hits the ground and goes, and it was like slow motion because I knew I would come back up, you know. I've been active my whole life. I was like, how do I find my way back into these practices with this like very like cleaned out perspective? And I did, and and it did lead me into being much more interested in kettlebell training because it's a skill. It's not as um not to say that weightlifting is simplistic, but it's like there's choreography, there's kind of like there's a little bit more of an investment in like just kind of the the art of it versus just like doing reps of something. Um, it brought me back into my running practice looking to have like goals, like I want to be able to run this far, you know, instead of just being like, oh, I go for a 30-minute run because that's what you're supposed to do, which in the back, back, back of my mind was like, because then you burn X amount of calories and you're like doing your quote unquote, you're doing that checkbox baker list fitness. But then I started to find purpose in all these things, bigger than just my body and bigger than like essentially some outside perspective. Um, and that is like super empowering. It's it's like great. So I think you can have those like watershed moments where someone says something or you see something or you just catch yourself doing a thing that you've been doing your whole life and you go, oh my God, am I literally gonna look at my thighs and have this thought till I'm 105? Like when does that stop? It could actually just stop right now. That is true. But I think for most of us, if you are really, because this is something I say to my clients, because I used to have clients only locally in Brooklyn, and you know, here we are, coastal city, there is a lot of support for like diversity and queerness and like different perspectives. But I think if you're I have a client who literally is in the mountains in Kentucky or Tennessee, uh there's no one around like me where she is, and that's not just me being like people in the south. It's just like she literally lives in a tiny town and doesn't have a lot of access to re resources that would be like talking about stuff like this. And I think if you are living in a home environment where people are like, oh, dad's put on a few pounds, you know, that's gonna be a really long process for you to heal on your own just because you are just saturated in it from everywhere. And then just like we were talking about before the podcast, telling people to diversify what they're listening to in their podcast, you know, what they're looking at on social media, like try and find those resources in the magic of the internet where you can take things from communities and cultures that are really far from where you are. Because that process, it needs a lot of support. You really can't do it alone, just like by gritting your teeth and unlearning decades and decades of diet culture.

Jenn Salib Huber 27:15

And that's the undieting, right? Is that before you can move forward with what you want or think you want, you have to undiet the programming that you have held about whatever it is in undieting from fitness, undieting from food, undieting from the patriarchy, like all of it is related, right?

Cadence Dubus 27:34

And and hold yourself with grace that, like you said, it there's a there's a real sense of fear around letting go of these structures. And to really just that could just be the first moment is going, wow, those structures were really helping me feel like I was quote unquote doing something every day. And when I don't have those like judgmental voices and little judgment check boxes, I do feel literally anxious. I don't really know, I feel like I'm free-falling. That can just be like a conversation you have with yourself over and over a few times, you know, however many times it takes to just go, wow, I'm really having a lot of anxiety just standing in front of the fridge because I I can't go good, bad food, and I have to just stand here and go, what do I actually want to eat? Ooh, I can feel it on my skin. I'm scared, you know, and just go, well, that's interesting. And then hopefully step forwards and go, that's what I want to eat.

Jenn Salib Huber 28:23

Yeah. I mean, it that's the observ like observing without judgment, right? Which is such a hard skill to be able to kind of stand outside yourself and be like, what is happening? You know, what's going on? What is it that I'm feeling? What do I want without deciding whether or not you're being good or bad? Is this a good thought? Is this a bad thought? Yeah. So interesting, the whole kettlebell story and like the needing to stop everything. I just shared this in a newsletter a couple of weeks ago, if anybody's listening to this when it comes out, um, about how Gillian Michaels kettlebell program in like 2012 was my entry really into kettlebells and the whole fitness world.

Cadence Dubus 29:03

Oh, it's also Gillian Michaels.

Jenn Salib Huber 29:05

It's a generational thing, right? Yeah. Um, and now like I feel nauseous just like saying those words. Um, but you know, I really thought that it was like I've got to do it. I think she wanted us to do like six days a week. And and it was like literally two videos. We're supposed to do the same two videos six days a week for 30 days. Like, come on, right. But I also had to let everything go for almost two years. Um, I the only thing I could do was just like walk. Um, and because the thought, the minute I was like, okay, today I'm gonna work out, my brain just went into like, all right, and here's what that means. That means we're doing it every day in the morning, 30 minutes, six days a week, no excuses. But I could not expand my belief system about what it looked like to be active and fit and whatever other adjective you want in there without that default kind of just showing up.

Cadence Dubus 30:04

Yeah.

Injuries And Rebuilding From The Basics

Jenn Salib Huber 30:05

And you know, we get to midlife, and for all kinds of reasons, we're we're we're not fitting into a mold anymore, which I think is a great thing, but it can also be really uncomfortable. How do you help people get from I don't know what to do because I only know how to do it one way to this is your recipe, you can cook however you want.

Cadence Dubus 30:27

Um well, because people are all different, it definitely depends on like what and who is in front of me, you know, what they're bringing to the table. There's usually a bunch of different reasons why that mold isn't working anymore. Most of the time it's some injury has happened at one point or or another, which is also let me just like asterisk. Just because you got injured doesn't mean there's something wrong with your body. Our bodies, you know, we could say they're spiritual vessels, all these things, the beauty, you know, gifts from God, stardust, whatever you want to say, they also are mechanisms, you know, they're they break down. If you have owned a pet of any kind, from a goldfish to a horse, you know, you can see that the the physical form ages, things get sort of rusty in time, you know. Uh so people being injured is very normal and it is part of using your body in gravity in the environment that we live in. We're not jellyfish. I try and say to people a lot, you know, if I was a jellyfish going through the ocean, probably my lifespan cycle in my body feels very different. So um, usually people come to me because they had some kind of fitness routine that like was working for them somewhat as an adult, and then they got injured, and then whoa, that threw them completely off the tracks, and they just have not been able to figure out how to come back. Um, and that might even be a fitness routine that was pretty diet culture invested, and in this injury process, they've been like, you know, looking back, I actually sort of hate it all of that. I don't want to do it. And also when I do XYZ, my knee kind of hurts. So now I extra don't want to do it. So what do I do now? Um, that's to say that a lot of my initial work with people as a um my training is very much based in like somatic therapies, Alexander technique, Feldenkrais. Um, a lot of kind of I'm a I have a background in dance. Anyone who's ever taken a dance class, there's just a lot of like body exploration and getting to know your own body and how your body moves before we do something else. So, kind of my first couple sessions with someone is literally like, let me just see you like sit, stand, walk, roll down from your skull to the floor, up and down. Let me just see your spine move, your arms move. And the first thing we do is just start to kind of build some stability here, some strength here. Let's get our primary colors in a row before we start doing, you know, this like very complex masterpiece that that you thought that a jog around the block was. But actually, it's pretty complex if you're 53 and you had a knee injury 20 years ago and then you badly sprained your ankle last winter. And turns out running is actually pretty challenging or whatever, even your local like spin class turns out just being in a bike that has this very prescribed set uh form for your body is making your SI joint hurt, and you're just like, geez, what can I do? So that's my first step with people. But the next one is kind of similar to my own story is like, what are you interested in? You know, like what gets you excited? You know, what what what are you already doing? Are you walking? Maybe you would like running. Clearly, you're able to get outside right early. That might be a next step for you. Um, showing people strength training can that can be in a so many different ways from body weight, so you have no equipment, to, you know, using any equipment, dumbbells, you know, theraband kind of things, to something that might be a little bit more like fun and engaging, like kettlebells. I think a lot of women have not really had an opportunity to feel literally in touch with their own body's strength. And so I think a lot of people who think of themselves as not very fit, most of my clients would say that they're not very coordinated when they first came to me. They always thought of themselves as like klutzy and they could never do sports or whatever. Once we start doing some strength work, where now they're doing like more compound exercises that just feel kind of like bold and kind of like sexy and fun. Like I'm gonna do a squat with a press at the top. Like now I just feel kind of like literally like roar, you know. Yeah, that's pretty like people are like, whoa, that was fun. I like that feeling. And strength training translates immediately into your daily life. So then people are like, one of my clients was telling me, you know, she's gotten really into gardening, and she used to ask her husband to dig all the holes for like shrubs and things like that. And I said to her, I think you can do that. I was like, We've been doing kettlebells now for like two and a half months. Like, you're strong. I think you can throw try that out. And she like texted me with photos of all, she was like, Look what I did. I did it all myself. She was like, it was not as hard as I thought, you know? And like that, amazing. That's all I want. Not everyone needs to be like doing some triathlon, you know, whatever. Like, that's the other part of fitness culture is that it's it always has this crazy, like huge goal. These are the things that we see in our little algorithms and our news feeds, is like mom of four wins Hawaii death marathon, crazy volcano climb, you know, and you're like, okay, I kind of want to just jog around my block. Like, you know, but the jog around the block, the digging your own holes in the garden, the like, you know, being able to carry your toddler on your shoulder and the dog leash on the other hand, like that is where you really notice, like, whoa, I feel good. I feel good in my body. And like that sensation that keeps people going. Yeah.

Jenn Salib Huber 36:02

I love all of that. And it made me think of a question that I would love to ask you. Um, that you know, it's related to kind of a question I get about food a lot, which is how do I know if I'm getting enough of the right things? This, you know, when people are intuitive eating, they're not tracking anymore. They kind of have this disconnect. And as they're building that trust relationship with their body, and they're like, Yeah, but how do I know if I'm doing it right, if I'm getting enough? How do you, I'm sure you get that question. How do you help people answer that?

Cadence Dubus 36:31

Um, it's so funny. I literally just, we just did a um summer bundle on all three of my self-paced courses. And one is a strength-based course that's kettlebell training. One is my self-massage um technique that I developed and trademarked called fascia release, um, where you do foam roller and self-massage for injuries and like rehab and also prehab. So sorting out asymmetries that might eventually cause injury. Um, and then the other one is my stability course, which is sort of like a body weight Pilates, um, and a lot of those somatic techniques um in there. And like my little tagline was there's no right way to begin. Begin where you are, because that's the thing. If you are, I have a lot of clients that are elderly. If you're 77 and you've never worked out before, we're gonna just start with some basic strength work and get you just feeling better in your body, connected to your body, you're literally feeling your body, and then that's gonna help with your balance and that's gonna help with your confidence. And then maybe it might be handy for you to add a little quote unquote cardio, but just going for a little walk and going for a little further walk and trying to pick up your speed. But let's do that only when we feel really confident about our balance and our strength, and for someone that age, your ability to get up off the ground in case you trip, you know. Yeah, um, to to kind of bring this idea that we're all supposed to get XYZ all the time is so reductive to our actual lives. And I fall for it myself. So the other day I literally caught myself thinking, geez, I really haven't been running a lot lately. I think I'm getting like, I guess I'm really not getting any cardiovascular training in the week. And then I was like, oh, except for when I bike commute to where I do teach a few people in person at a space that I rent in Brooklyn, and it's a 40-minute one-way bike ride that goes mostly uphill. And then on the way back, it's also uphill because you have to like basically climbing over this park. And I was like, oh, except for the nearly 90 minutes of cycling that I do. But in my mind, I was like, it's not a workout, like it's amazing how much I was like, Oh, but that's my commute. I'm not, I'm not in my like workout clothes. You know what I mean? It's amazing how we fall into these traps. So you might be someone who has like two collie dogs that you take on a five-mile hike every morning because if you don't, they'll drive you crazy all day. But in your mind, you're like, oh, but I don't run, so I must be so bad at cardio, I

Knowing You Are Doing Enough

Cadence Dubus 38:55

never do any cardio. Whereas someone else would be like, uh, you're going on a five-mile hike every morning? Yeah.

Jenn Salib Huber 39:01

Exactly. With the comparison, right? That's really what gets is comparing ourselves and using somebody else's experience as a mirror of our own. Yeah. Um, and I think too, you know, what I tell people is, you know, are do you have enough energy? Are you, you know, do you feel like you are supporting how your body is working? Like are those working well? And maybe there are some metrics like lab work that can help, you know, give you some feedback about things we can improve on, but not everything can be controlled with food either. So some things are gonna change regardless of what you do. Um, you know, and I think that with fitness, what I hear from a lot of people in movement is that once they have developed the trust that their body wants it and enjoys it, they can also trust the days when they want more or less. Truth. Right? It does not become this, oh my gosh, you know, I'm I haven't moved in five days. It becomes a oh, I haven't felt like moving in five days. I wonder why, right?

Cadence Dubus 40:07

That's the freedom. Like that's I think that in your healing process is when you can really give yourself a gold star if we're gonna do metrics. Because that moment when you can have conversations with yourself, that is freedom. Freedom is agency, freedom is choice, like your ability to go, not go, oh, I haven't done XYZ for two weeks, but to go, hmm, I haven't done XYZ for two weeks and self-inquiry, what's going on, you know? Um, I think that's huge. Like that is the moment. I mean, I will share with my clients, I am not impervious to thoughts about my body. But I when I quote unquote notice that I've put on weight, I don't immediately go, how terrible, I'm a hideous monster and a big failure. I go, hmm, why is that happening? And then I might think all kinds of things. Am I close to my period? Well, there we go. It wouldn't it be great if I tracked my period and then this wasn't a surprise every month. Uh or I might go, yeah, it's been a really stressful month actually. We've been ordering in a lot. I haven't been doing things that I like to do, I haven't been restoring. That is a great that that is a great response to my body is having to these inputs. A very normal and natural response. And I really like cooking and I like having more downtime. And let me just refocus on those. And then I stop paying attention to that thought and all of those things. But that's just like a nice little self-inquiry because of course our bodies are going to change, but to let continually like add context instead of just seeing our bodies as like kind of like Barbie in the little case where she's like pinned to the to the cardboard wall behind her, and we're supposed to always be like that forever. That's it's not where my body exists.

Jenn Salib Huber 41:53

That's not where I mean it's Barbie, right? We can't compare ourselves to Barbie. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, we had there was a really great um story that just came up with uh somebody in the feaster community who was has been working on a relationship with movement and would always would feel guilty if like she missed a few days with movement because of work, because of life or whatever. And kind of came came out, I guess, that she figured out that it was because she was afraid she would never get started again. That if she dropped for too long, she would never be able to get started again. And then she went away for the weekend with a girlfriend who really likes to just relax when they're relaxing, which is great. But she found herself craving movement on like the third day, was like, oh my gosh, I really wish I could go for a bike ride or a walk. And it was such an aha moment for her because she connected that actually I do have it in me to want to move my body, I just have to trust it and not looking at these external factors to drive the motivation, right? Exactly, exactly.

Cadence Dubus 42:57

And I think you also said something earlier, like, you know, what is your body, like what does your body need? Basically, what are you what are you wanting from your body? So, like, if you're not exercising for a while and then you find that you're like bringing groceries up your stairs. I mean, I live in a city, so like people going up walk-ups is like a real thing, and you're noticing, like, oh, I have to just stop at the landing of every every floor just to catch my breath. That you're like, oh, it was better three months ago when I was like really working out a little bit more consistently. That's a great like little cue, you know, and that's like, or like maybe you're just doing this now and you haven't you don't have a fitness practice, and you're like, oh, that would be so nice if that was easier. So, what would help me do that strength training, like getting on a bike, a bike more often? Like, what would that look like? Similarly, your friend, your client just experiencing hanging out and just being like, oh, I actually have a feeling in my body where my body wants this some kind of movement that turns out also isn't prescriptive. It's not 30 minutes of one thing, it's just movement. It's just living in this vehicle, which is an animal body. And all animals need movement. And the closer we get to our bodies and the closer and the more trust that we build, the more we see like my little Abba Chihuahua who's only four, but she acts like she's four months old still. We're always like, will she ever mature? Um, and if she doesn't get a good enough walk, hashtag small dogs need long amounts of exercise. They're not lap dogs. She does sprints around our couch at 10 o'clock at night, and it's absolutely hysterical. But I always I just so love seeing that she feels her body and she's like, I need to get this energy out and I need to run. And she'll just sprint and sprint and sprint, and she takes a little break, and then she sprints and sprints and sprints. It's totally hysterical. But I'm also like, and it's my cue too. I'm like, okay, okay, tomorrow we're gonna get we're gonna make time for a longer walk through you. Yeah, that's great, you know. But it's like that's the craving that your client felt. Like, I have felt that too, you know. I'm like, oh, I'm doing all this work, I'm on my computer, and then I stand up, and just like a little puppy, I'm like, oh, my body wants to do some movement. I gotta figure something out.

Jenn Salib Huber 45:06

Yeah, you know, it all comes down to trust. Uh, and I think that that's what I really appreciate about your approach and everything that you share and the conversations that you have on your BusyBody Podcast is really such a great reminder that we can learn to rebuild

Joy And Play As The Missing Ingredient

Jenn Salib Huber 45:20

trust. Uh yeah. So, last question that I ask everyone what do you think is the missing ingredient in midlife? Oh my god.

Cadence Dubus 45:31

You know, the first thing that popped into my mind is just sort of like joy, you know, playtime. It's something that I talk about a lot in classes because I try to add things into my classes that are play moments. Like we're gonna do something, um, like in my matte-based classes that's a hundred percent above our level. A really goofy, there's a lot of very classic um Pilates exercises that don't get taught very much because a lot of Pilates is actually pretty gymnastic. And so some of them are like kind of doing an egg roll on your back till you roll all the way over and touch your skull forwards, like you're gonna do a somersault, but you're holding your feet and it's very goofy. It's it's like something a three-year-old would make up. And I'm like, we're gonna try this and it's not gonna work. 100% it's not gonna work. But in trying it, we're all gonna learn something. You know, we're all gonna be like, whoa, I didn't know that I could hold my feet while in this goofy position and move, or we're gonna be like, whoa, whoa, what's happening in my shoulders, you know, or like my boobs fall on my face and I can't breathe. Like we're gonna learn a goofy thing. And I think adults, we we don't get space to just be silly and just kind of experience our bodies. And we also get really fearful of quote unquote hurting ourselves. So we we literally don't try things because we're we're scared, which is totally legit, especially if you've had a lot of injuries. Yeah, but it really holds us back also from joyful moments. And I I think often my partner and I we do cold swimming in the winter time with a group of delightful people every Sunday. And it is just like adult playtime. Like we always are just like that's so much of the experience. One day a friend of ours brought a kite and it was like February, and we all stood around flying this kite, literally like children, running up and down the beach, trying to be like me next, and like holding it and all stuff. And it's like, you know, 20 degrees out, windy on a beach, and we're all in our winter coats running around, you know, totally having fun in a way that like you have to carve that out as an adult. Like that is very intentional. I mean, it was a thing I kind of stumbled on for sure, but once I hooked into this community, I was like, oh, this is benefiting on a thousand levels, you know. And I think that I see that really missing for people because we have all these responsibilities that come with adulthood and a lot of people that need our time. And I do think that it's an overused word and like an overused prescription because there's always some like podcast bro using this kind of word and sentence, but to be intentional with our time and really think like, do I need to scroll on my phone for two hours on Sunday morning? Or could that be a time that me or my family that we just do something that's like really open? We all go to a playground and we all play on the things. Adults going on swing sets, you know, like what can we all do that's just open and it's not like this like kind of already prescribed like going to brunch has a beginning, middle, and end. What's the thing that we can do that we don't really know what's gonna happen? Because that's really where the most fun experiences and memories and experiences of our own body, where we build that trust, that's where that happens, you know. Um, so yeah, that's the first thing that possibly proteins.

Jenn Salib Huber 49:04

Thank God.

Where To Find Cadence And Closing Notes

Jenn Salib Huber 49:05

Oh my gosh, this has been such a great conversation. Thank you so much. Um, you know, I we're gonna put the links to where people can find you and everything like that.

Cadence Dubus 49:16

But what is your handle on Instagram if people want to kind of add Brooklyn Strength, Brooklyn just like the city, B-R O K L.

Jenn Salib Huber 49:23

Perfect. Thank you so much for sharing um your wisdom, and I'm sure that lots of people will hopefully feel inspired to maybe kind of let that unraveling happen if they've been feeling stuck and build it back up with intention. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. It's always a pleasure. Thanks for joining me for this episode of the Midlife Feast. If you're ready to take the next step towards thriving in midlife, head to menopausenutritionist.ca to learn more about my one-to-one and group coaching programs, free resources, and where to get your copy of Eat to Thrive during menopause. And if you've loved today's conversation and found it helpful, please share it with a friend who needs to hear this and leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps so many more people just like you find their way to food freedom and midlife confidence. Until next time, remember, midlife is not the end of the story, it's the feast. Let's savor it together.