The Midlife Feast
The Midlife Feast
#123 - You Are More Than What You Eat with Dr. Emma Beckett PhD
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Isn’t it refreshing to hear this dieting trope “you are what you eat” turned on its head? In this episode, I had the privilege of chatting with Dr. Emma Beckett, an Australian nutrition scientist and the brilliant mind behind You Are More Than What You Eat. Dr. Beckett’s book dives into the science of eating behaviors, but she makes it all so relatable and easy to understand.
We’re cutting through the noise and addressing why dietary myths and labels like “good” or “bad” can mess with our health and our relationship with food. Dr. Beckett’s approach is all about enjoying your food without stressing over perfection, embracing a flexible and intuitive eating style that actually makes food easy and fun.
Tune in to hear how adding a little flavor can turn nutritious foods into delicious meals, and get practical tips for a more joyful relationship with what’s on your plate.
To learn more about Dr. Emma and her work, be sure to check out her website at www.dremmabeckett-foodnutritionscientist.com and follow her on IG @dremmabeckett
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Looking for more about midlife, menopause nutrition, and intuitive eating? Click here to grab one of my free resources and learn what I've got "on the menu" including my 1:1 and group programs. https://www.menopausenutritionist.ca/links
Hi and welcome to the Midlife Feast, the podcast for women who are hungry for more in this season of life. I'm your host, dr Jenn Salib-Huber. I'm an intuitive eating dietitian and naturopathic doctor, and I help women manage menopause without dieting and food rules. Come to my table, listen and learn from me trusted guest experts in women's health and interviews with women just like you. Each episode brings to the table juicy conversations designed to help you feast on midlife. And if you're looking for more information about menopause, nutrition and intuitive eating, check out the midlife feast community, my monthly membership that combines my no nonsense approach that you all love to nutrition with community, so that you can learn from me and others who can relate to the cheers and challenges of midlife. Hi everyone, welcome to this week's episode of the Midlife Feast.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:My guest today is Dr Emma Beckett. I explain why I love her name so much in the episode. She's a nutrition scientist from Australia. She has written a book called you Are More Than what you Eat, which, as I explained, is really, I think, an undieting book, one that is very needed, but she does such a great job of explaining the science in a way that everyone can not only understand but relate to so, and if you don't follow her on Instagram, you definitely should, because she is also a great, great fashionista. I love her dresses, I love her style. She's just really fun, but so, so knowledgeable. So if you've ever wondered about, you know what is the science behind eating behaviors and what is the science behind nutrition in a big picture way, but also really relevant to what's on your plate. I think you're really going to enjoy this conversation.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:But before we dive into that, one of the fun things that we're doing this season is reading out some of the fan mail questions that you have sent me. So wherever you listen to podcasts, there's a little link at the top that says click here to send me a message, and so what I'm going to be doing whether you are listening on Spotify or Apple podcast or whether you're watching on YouTube, I'm going to try and pull out some of these questions from time to time, especially ones that I think will be helpful to many people. So this question came from someone in Minneapolis. I really appreciated the episode on decoding cravings. I'm learning so much from your podcast. It's the first perimen decoding cravings. I'm learning so much from your podcast. It's the first perimenopause nutrition podcast that I found I'm still learning about intuitive eating and I have a question how would I manage intuitive eating and pre-diabetes?
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:I pay attention to how foods make me feel, but it seems like it might not be enough. My mom and brother have type 2 diabetes and I really want to be able to prevent that. This is a great question and it really highlights one of the challenges that I think people in midlife face, which is how do we marry not wanting to control and restrict in diet with the realities of how nutrition can impact both our health today and in the future? So diabetes is really a complicated thing in that it is not caused or cured by one thing. It means food can't cause or cure it. We have genetics, there are environmental considerations, there's medications, there's past medical history, there's all kinds of things that we don't fully understand, but they can sometimes come out at a point in our life which is often around midlife and it might feel like food is the most important thing that we need to focus on. Food plays a role but, as I mentioned, it's not going to cause or cure it. So for somebody who has prediabetes which is not necessarily a fully agreed upon diagnosis it usually means that there are signs of insulin resistance, and so it might be that your blood sugar is starting to trend upwards.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:Depending on where you live, there are different cutoffs for what would be considered pre-diabetes and insulin resistance, but what tends to happen is that we jump immediately into well, I have to control all my sugar, all my carbohydrates, I need to eat all the protein, eat all the fiber, and we can still be intuitive about how to build these balanced plates that are going to support a healthy blood sugar. So when we talk about gentle nutrition, that's exactly what we mean. So somebody who has diabetes or is looking to have better blood sugar control is going to want to think about having protein on your plate. Most of the time is going to want to think about having fiber. Fiber is, hands down, the most evidence-based add-in to help with pretty much everything, but especially blood sugars, including fiber in the morning, including from carbohydrates Oatmeal, for example. There is a lot of good evidence that including and starting your day with oatmeal results in better blood sugars over the course of the day. So building a balance plate for pre-diabetes or diabetes with intuitive eating still means leading with satisfaction.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:What do I want? But then adding in. What do I need, but then adding in, what do I need? So, working with somebody who can help you build those balance plates, who can help you understand you know what is going to be most important, but I think, really stepping back and asking yourself do I need to put all of my time and energy into managing my food for this, or is food one of the pieces or one of the things that I can add in to maybe some other things? Because if we look at sleep, if we look at stress management, if we look at movement, all of those play a role in managing blood sugars as well.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:So I hope that this answered this question and if you want to ask me a question that I can answer on the podcast, then just look for the link in the show notes. Hi, dr Emma. Welcome to the Midlife Feast. Thank you for having me. So we've been having a good laugh and one of the reasons is that the title of your book and your name really grabbed my attention on Instagram. So your name is Dr Emma Beckett and my son's name is Beckett, and the title of your book is I'll let you say it.
Dr. Emma Beckett:You are more than what you eat science, nutrition and a perfectly imperfect approach to eating.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:Which anybody who listens to the podcast will know. That is my entire philosophy, but I love that it's a play on the trope right. The dieting trope of you are what you eat, which we are not, as your book kind of really eloquently and you know interesting, kind of goes through all the points. But tell me why you wanted to write this book.
Dr. Emma Beckett:So first I'll explain the title, because I really, at the beginning of my career, I was really stuck on this idea of you are what you eat. And then, when I got into nutrition and genetics as part of my research, I started saying but you also eat because of what you are. And then, as I realized that it's actually people who eat food and not robots or spreadsheets, I realized that it's yes, we all eat, and, yes, we all eat for reasons, but we're also so much more than that and we can't divorce those two ideas from each other. And so that's how I ended up with the title of the book.
Dr. Emma Beckett:For writing the book, the big picture reason is science is supposed to be about giving people options and hope and tools, and science is supposed to be for the benefits of people. And somehow the science of food and eating has become the opposite of that. It's become weaponized and it's become judgment and it's become you know, all these awful, good and bad and moralizing. And so for me, this is about taking back science, and taking back the science for the goodness of people and eating, and not for telling people how they can be better or a shinier version of themselves with some simple rules, which is what science of eating apparently has been reduced to by diet culture.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:Oh, that's a very succinct explanation for why we need this book, and I think it's a nice lead into what some of the problems are. So I don't know how old you are. I'm going to make some assumptions that I think I'm a bit older than you, maybe a lot older than you, but either way.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:I've been studying nutrition for 30 years now, and so when I first started studying to become a dietitian, we were still very entrenched in the low fat world craze, and all of the nutrition science that I was taught in the mid to late 90s was about how can we get as much fat out of our food, out of our diet, out of our life, out of our food? There was still this war on fat. People feared it. We had things like. I did a second year food science presentation on Olestra, like that's you know, and that was like new science at the time. And so we've, you know, for at least 30 years we have been obsessed with trying to find the one way for people to eat, and you know, of course, the trends vary.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:Anybody who's been in the nutrition world for a few decades will know that trends come and go. It's same shit, different day, lather, rinse, repeat, like there is nothing new, because we keep trying to reinvent a wheel that's never going to be a wheel, like we can't actually find that one size fits all thing. So I'd love to talk about something you call the perception gap, because I'm obsessed with trying to figure out why the world doesn't want what we know about nutrition to be true. That's what it feels like. To me, it feels like that's the good fight we're fighting. The science is out there. Anybody who actually looks at the science of why weight loss and diets doesn't work? Intentional weight loss doesn't work, diets don't work, why we don't need to eat perfectly, why we don't need to fear carbs? The science is so clear, but the world doesn't want it to be true, would you?
Dr. Emma Beckett:agree, you are so right. And it's because it's not just science, it's people who need to apply science. And it's really obvious when you look at human psychology why we want to believe the simple things. And it's also kind of part of what the nutrition community has done and kept pushing out simple things, because simple seems achievable and simple seems motivating and complex seems hard. And it's also an artifact of how we study food and nutrition, because we need to break things down into parts to be able to study them.
Dr. Emma Beckett:We can't just go let's separate two big groups of people around the globe and watch them for 60 generations while they all eat differently and then make the decision about which is the right way to eat. We can't study like that. We need to do it in bite-sized chunks, pardon the pun. But then when we translate it, we start going just do this, just do that. And sometimes that's because people want to sell you things, and sometimes it's just because people want to make it seem possible.
Dr. Emma Beckett:And so we end up with what is called the perception gap, where we think there's these little things that really matter. There's these little things that really matter, and then we ignore the big things because we don't want to have to deal with them, we don't want to tackle them, and so we're really stuck in this situation in nutrition where we're reducing things to just single components but we're also sweating those small things a whole lot. And if you look at where we're at now with you know definitions like ultra-processed foods. Some of those criteria will put something in the ultra-processed category simply for having added sugar, and there's no question of the context or the amount or how much of that food you eat or how often that food's eaten. It's just bam, that's now in the bad category. And we think we're making it easy for people by making those categories simple, but we're actually making it really hard because it really confuses people about what it is they actually need to be concerned with and which bits are just a waste of time and money and extra stress.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:Yeah, and you know I find that, especially with sugar. I'm glad that you brought that up, because no one loves to hate on sugar more than the dieting world. And so many people will, you know, say things like I just need to cut out sugar, Like that is the one thing they need to do, and if they can just do that thing, everything else will fall into place. And I'm not mocking anyone, you know, because those are words that people say to me all the time. I just need to figure out how to eat less sugar, and I know that that's going to fix my joint pain, my sleep, my hot flashes, my mood, my weight.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:Like it really is this oversimplification of what we need to do, and often I'm sure you get this too this pushback of like well, how can you say that sugar is good for you? And I don't know how you answer that. But I say no one is saying that sugar is good for you, but we're not saying that it is the problem either and that if you're eating a balanced diet, as boring and unsexy as that is, a little bit of sugar isn't going to kill anyone, and it's not the problem to focus on and this is the problem.
Dr. Emma Beckett:Yeah, the false binaries is the problem, not the sugar. So, yeah, neither you or I ever said sugar is good for you. Sugar is an important energy source. Sugar's plant-based, if you want to put that spin on it. But things don't have to be good or bad. It doesn't have to be one or the other. It's about context. And when we apply the reductionist approach and say sugar is bad for you, that automatically becomes in people's minds well, if you take the sugar out, then a food is automatically good for you. And that's not true either. And minds well, if you take the sugar out, then a food is automatically good for you. And that's not true either. And so, yeah, reducing everything that's false binary is just. It sounds like it's making life easier for us, but it's actually making things harder because it really misleads us and makes us waste our time and energy and takes away a lot of the joy and intuition out of eating.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:Yeah, and it also, I think, doesn't give our human bodies enough credit.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:One of the things that I love saying is that, you know, if we needed to micromanage nutrition down to every bite, every gram, every food group, you and I wouldn't be here having this conversation, because humans wouldn't have survived. We are resilient, adaptable, flexible, meat suits, essentially, and how we feed it of course, matters. Food matters, but it never has to be perfect, and moving away from that perfection without feeling like you're doing nothing is, I think, this really hard concept for people to grasp. When I'm working with people with intuitive eating and undieting, which is essentially what your book is, people always ask me do you have a great undieting book and I'm now going to recommend yours because it goes through that so well but just letting go of these beliefs that aren't true, have never been true, aren't serving you and aren't helping you have the relationship with food that you want. I'd love to talk about the perception gap, because this is very much related to that, and so tell us a little bit about the perception gap in nutrition.
Dr. Emma Beckett:So it's about when we worry more about things that really don't have a big impact.
Dr. Emma Beckett:So, you know, it's where we're super focused on something that we all believe is true and scary, and not focused on the things that are actually big and scary.
Dr. Emma Beckett:And so one of the examples that I use in the book is more people are scared of spiders than are scared of dying, more people are scared of spiders than are afraid of climate change than the things that are actually all adding up to harm us, because no one wants to acknowledge that climate change is damaging and a risk to us as humans, but they're very comfortable admitting the small thing that they're scared of, which is the spider.
Dr. Emma Beckett:And so we do that in nutrition, where we single out the simple things that we feel like we can control and we can target, and so we go fat is bad, sugar is bad, too much energy is bad and this is good, antioxidants are good, and we end up, like I said, in these false binaries where we think that if we take those things out and we add those things in, we've automatically ended up with a health food, and that leaves us stressing about things that are not going to actually change our lives and that takes up all of the headspace and we don't have time to actually work on things like adding in core foods and adding in, you know, things that are going to nourish us, and adding in joy and all of those things that we'd really love people to do, like eating the rainbow and adding variety.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:Yeah, and I think there's too much information out there. You know, I tell people all the time that you don't need more information. You need a filter because you have lots of it. If you have lived, even to be 15, you have been exposed to more messaging and more information. That is not knowledge, it is data, but it is just this information cloud.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:And when you get to be, you know my age 47, and you know, or anybody who's kind of lived at least you know those 30 or 40 years and has dieted you have taken in so much information, most of it conflicting depending on the day, right, and so this idea of people needing a filter, I think, resonates and appeals to a lot of people, but they're still stuck with. Well, I still don't know what to filter, because my doctor's saying one thing, you're saying something else, my best friend is saying something else. What? This is kind of a bigger picture question. But how do we get, how do we apply the filter to the nutrition world, not even just on the individual level, but how do we get to the point where we can trust nutrition professionals again? Because I'm sure you feel that too, we're constantly fighting against fads, which we've always done, to be fair. But now, with social media, those voices have so much space and so much airtime that I feel like three quarters of my job online is just defending science.
Dr. Emma Beckett:Yep. So there's different ways we can tackle this and letting their biases through and, because of their biases, what might they be trying to sell me? But what we want to do is really look at our biases and say, why do I believe this and why am I taking this information from this person? And then you can start to unpack. Do I actually believe that person because they have some particular special knowledge or skills? Or do I believe that person because I'm related to them and I trust them? Or do I believe that person because they have the body type that I aspire to? And once we start asking ourselves those questions, we can interrogate the way we process and filter information a little bit better.
Dr. Emma Beckett:What we can do as the nutrition community, though, to make that easier, is have more genuine conversations about information and how information can be applied, because what we always try to do is go science over here. That bit's messy, and you guys don't need to understand that. You just need to know how to do it, and that means eating this, and that's doing people a disservice, because if we don't unpack how we arrived at that information and who was studied and why and for how long, long and in what context and what are different kinds of studies even mean and what do they intend to do? We don't have those conversations with people, then they can never apply their own filter and they're always going to have to keep trusting someone else to do it for them. The other thing we can do is be a little bit more honest with people about how evidence evolves, because over time we've had these rules and you know this is good for you, this is bad for you. Don't eat too much of this, eat more of that, add more of this and those change and, like you said, people end up not trusting us.
Dr. Emma Beckett:But those things didn't change because people were telling lies and now better liars are lying better. Those things change because evidence evolved and when evidence evolves, recommendations need to evolve and you know the best practice and principles therefore evolve, and so things we told people before yeah, that was bad advice, but it's bad advice in hindsight, in this context. It wasn't bad advice in that time with that evidence and that context. So having those honest conversations that we as scientists are not perfect either, I think is really important because there is no perfect study in nutrition. We will never be done with nutrition, because people are changing. The environment is changing, food is changing. We are going to have to keep tackling this from different technologies and different viewpoints for the rest of humanity if we want to keep using nutrition to kind of optimize our lifespans and our enjoyment and our performance and all those other things.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:Very well said. I like to share this example, which I think I've shared before, but I've certainly shared at some point, because that's where my brain is at now. I'm like, oh, I remember telling this story before, but when I was studying nutrition at Acadia, second year human nutrition course, I was the TA in my last, third, fourth years. So that meant that I had to mark the exams and the no brainer question on the fat soluble vitamin section was what is the most toxic fat soluble vitamin? And in 1998 to 1999, the answer was vitamin D. And so think about that Vitamin D that you know we all take. If you live in Canada I don't know what it's like in Australia, but you know Canada, northern Europe, you know, it's all. It's a government recommendation to take vitamin D and yet as little as not even 30 years ago, it was considered toxic in supplemental form. It was considered toxic in supplemental form.
Dr. Emma Beckett:I had to get special approval to be able to buy vitamin D powder to put on cells in the research lab because it was marked down as a dangerous chemical.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:And I was like you can buy it at the chemist. Yeah, that's wild, right? So science changes. I think one of the things that came to mind as you were talking about it too, is that, because of the world that we live in and because so much of science now is not just publicly funded most is not publicly funded you have companies that are developing products based on early science but selling those I'm not going to name names, but probably people can guess selling that technology as if it has been proven science and it isn't. And that confuses things more, because you can have people with PhDs who have worked in reputable research labs, who now have a product that they're selling based on their research, and they now have a conflict of interest that people need to see when they're looking at the claims being made by those people that if they are selling something based on their science, then that's a filter that you have to apply. Is this as true as someone is telling me it is, which is a whole other kettle of fish, isn't it?
Dr. Emma Beckett:Yeah, and conflicts of interest is one of the critical thinking things we think we focus on very well and often don't focus on very well. I do want to be careful when we talk about industry funding and conflicts of interest, because we do this really weird thing in food and nutrition where we kind of demonize big food for being industrial and then the logical false binary of that is that if it's from a small company, they therefore have your best interests at heart. And because there is so much evolution in the technological space when it comes to nutrition that we will need in the future to solve the challenges of feeding a growing population on a planet that is running out of resources, we do need to have industry involved in nutrition research to be able to meet those challenges. So when we talk about conflicts of interest, we don't want to create a false impression that if someone is part of an industry that they're therefore selling you lies. Because that's where we're at right now with people's critical thinking in this space, and you know people do.
Dr. Emma Beckett:We do need to get funding for research into these solutions from somewhere, and governments aren't funding it, and so industry does need to come to the table. They're going to make money off it, so they do need to be part of the solution. But what is the problem is what you've highlighted, where people are getting ahead of the science and getting ahead of the science and using that to sell, because once that happens, we cannot get that misinformation back, and then people get this entire mistrust of all of the future advances that are potentially going to be part of the solutions, going to be part of the solutions. And so we want to make sure that whatever we do in any of these spaces, that we do it ethically, with a view to not just our intended benefits but our unintended harms, because quite often we forget about the unintended harms in trying to push forward something that could be exciting or useful and we forget what could be the unintended consequences along the way.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:Very well said. Very well said and yeah, and I think just the idea of a filter, you know, just having that filter of is this true? Is this true for me? Is this true for everyone? Is this safe? You know, really trying to have those critical thinking skills can go such a long way to helping you make a decision that you feel more confident about. And I totally understand that when people have this fear of I need to make a decision right now. I need to do something in this moment and this looks good. But it's kind of like what you were saying about how we're very drawn to things that we can do right now. I need to do something in this moment and this looks good. But it's kind of like what you were saying about how we're very drawn to things that we can do right now. We're very drawn to something that feels like an accessible, tangible, within my reach solution, but it won't be if it's not true. It's just going to feel like it for a little while.
Dr. Emma Beckett:Yeah, and I know you've talked about this before and with other guests about decision fatigue and how that impacts our decision making, and our brains try to protect us by helping us make those easy, quick decisions. But if we want to unlearn the misinformation, we need to actually actively consider information as it comes in, not just let it wash over us, because that's when we will get tricked, we will get taken for a ride, we will get misled, and so, being a little bit more deliberate in thinking, not forever, because that would be exhausting, but for at least a time to be able to let go of some of the things that you've been chasing, as simple solutions can be useful.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:So that's a great segue into flexible eating, and I love that you're kind of taking back the term flexitarian, because I also think it's a great word to just describe somebody who has a flexible and forgiving relationship with food. So how do you define flexible eating?
Dr. Emma Beckett:Yeah, I'm definitely the term flexitarian I hated when I first met it because I was like, isn't that just all of us, don't? We all just have choices about eating different things every day? But for me, flexible eating is about tools instead of rules. It's about letting go of. I need to do this, I should do this, this is what I do, this is my diet identity.
Dr. Emma Beckett:And going to, what do I need now, in this moment, or this week, this month, this day? Because our goals will change and our situations will change and the world around us will change and how healthy and well we are and what our priorities are will change. And being able to go well, this is my first choice if the situation is ideal. But if that choice isn't available, what's the next choice? I feel comfortable making and when you think of it, as you know, a flow chart or a matrix then you can make the most appropriate decision for you in that moment, in that time, in that context, instead of going. You know there's no food here that I can eat, and you know how many times have we all done that where you know you've been on a particular diet and then you've gone to someone's house or an event and you've gone. I just can't eat anything here.
Dr. Emma Beckett:Nothing here fits my rules and that's not healthy. That's not a healthy way to eat or a healthy way to live. And being able to go okay today in this context, there's nothing here that fits my priorities, but what am I going to eat otherwise is a much more useful and joyful way of doing.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:It is a much more useful and joyful way of doing it and less scary, right?
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:Because when you have these set of rules that you feel like you have to live and die by and you're in a situation where you're hungry, you can't access what it is that you think that you need, it's scary and I'm just talking about, like, the fear of will I have to go hungry because this has sugar, gluten, dairy, whatever, and when we get into fear-based decisions, you know, that is kind of what I feel is a big barrier to a peaceful relationship with food, because we do have to eat many times a day, every day of our life.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:We can't always be in our house, in our kitchen with our supplies. We have to have this easy decision or framework for making a decision and it helps to keep us out of that all or nothing thinking that I think more people are stuck in than they realize and that all or nothing thinking is exhausting, so exhausting to think I can only do this, I can never do this. I have to do this, or I'm a bad person if I don't, or I failed if I don't Like. It is such an emotional rollercoaster to not have flexibility with food.
Dr. Emma Beckett:Absolutely. I think you've explained it perfectly there, because the real fear that we have when we're stuck on those rules is the fear of not being in control. And having a tool or a framework instead of a rule means you can be in control, because your decision making, that cascade of decision making, can be a controlled one if you prepare for it, without locking you into those simple rules that are about failure. So it's really, yeah, the control that we want with the simple rules, but we don't need simple rules to actually be in control, because we're adults, we run these bodies and we are qualified to make those decisions for ourselves.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:And we have to have pleasure built into that flexible relationship with food. You know so much of what diet and wellness culture has done has overemphasized the nutrition, has overemphasized the importance of you know nutrient density and make sure every bite counts, and omits the fact that humans need pleasure. Food is a source of pleasure and we have opportunities for pleasure on our plate every day. So eating something simply because it tastes good is part of a healthy relationship with food and if you don't allow space for that, you are never going to have flexible eating, ever.
Dr. Emma Beckett:Yep, one of the things I talk about in the book is the idea of enjoyment span. So we took a lifespan and we added health span and turned it into you know how long do we live? Well, for not just how old can we get, but for me got to layer enjoyment span on top of that, because if I need to be miserable and torture my body every day for the rest of my life to increase my lifespan and my health span, then I'm not interested because that is boring and that is horrible and I was not put on this earth to suffer.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:A hundred thousand percent, and one of the lies of diet culture is that and wellness culture is that it keeps trying to convince us that there is a diet out there, there is a way of eating out there that you can achieve that will make you not want the chocolate cake that you've loved your whole life, that will magically turn this off and make you want carob instead of cocoa, or make you want a crunchy carrot instead of a chip, and it doesn't exist.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:You know that is one of the false beliefs that narratives that has been perpetuated by diet and wellness culture is that there's something wrong with you for enjoying food that tastes good. And there isn't. It's just how we're wired and when we can make space for that, welcome that it's so much easier to work with. It is so much easier to build a quote unquote balanced plate if you allow satisfaction and pleasure. Much easier to build a quote unquote balance plate if you allow satisfaction and pleasure and taste to have a spot on that plate instead of just oh, this is high in protein and this is high in fiber and this is an antioxidant, because those things aren't satisfying in the way that thinking about eating your favorite dessert is.
Dr. Emma Beckett:Absolutely, and the idea that if you enjoy a food, it needs to be a guilty pleasure, or that to have a nutritious food, that it needs to be perfect with no flavor added, and I can't believe how many diets I've been on where you need to eat salad with dressing on the side and or dip your fork in the salad dressing and and like it.
Dr. Emma Beckett:It's just we torture ourselves to make ourselves feel in control, but in doing that we actually make it harder for ourselves to eat the vegetables. And you know, you know, we all know, you don't undo the nutrition by adding dressing. But if the dressing or the sauce or the butter or you know all those things that make food taste good, facilitate the healthy eating or the health promoting eating, then that's a good thing, because a vegetable you don't eat is not nutritious at all. So I would absolutely love if we could let go of this idea of perfection in what we need to achieve. And you know, food as nutrition only.
Dr. Emma Beckett:And you know, look at the reasons why we eat and use those. Use those as tools, not as a way of chastising yourself for wanting to experience joy. It's I have no idea. I wish I knew why humans did this to ourselves, because it's a very deep rooted way that we we seem to think we need to make it unpleasant to be good for us. And there's a whole hypothesis on this the unhealthy tasty intuition it's called, where we assume if a food is not tasty that it must be good for us, and we assume that if a food is tasty, it must be bad for us, and that's once again a completely false binary.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:Yeah, that's so interesting. The example you were giving about salad dressing reminds me of one that I use with yogurt. I don't know how many times when I'm talking to people about food and we're brainstorming ideas, I love yogurt. It's super flexible, it, you know, can be any meal. It's you know so many things and I love the taste of it. But people will say, oh, I only like flavored yogurt, or I don't like plain Greek yogurt, and they're surprised when I say I don't either, so I don't eat it. I always buy almost always buy a flavored yogurt. It means that I eat more yogurt. I'm not worried about the little bit of sugar that is in my vanilla Greek yogurt if it means that I enjoy the Greek yogurt more often.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:And just realizing that we don't have to choose, like you said, the untasty, unflavorful one in order for it to be health promoting, we can have that flexibility in how we make the puzzle work. For you know ourselves as individuals and my puzzle is going to be different than your puzzle, and it doesn't mean that one is better than the other. It simply means that this is the puzzle that works for me right now. It may not work in 10 years If I was, or if I'm diagnosed with diabetes, in 10 years I might make a different choice. It doesn't mean that it's bad now. It means that it works now and if my puzzle changes, then I can change out the puzzle piece. And I think that this idea of there isn't one right way is the hardest thing for people to really grasp and believe. Because, going back to the beginning of our conversation, we have been led to believe that there is one right way and we just have to keep finding it.
Dr. Emma Beckett:But we also have this strange urge as humans where when we find the thing that works for us, we want to share it with everyone. We want to sing it from the rooftops. And so people will often say to me I don't understand why people can't just do this one thing that I do I make my own bread, or I make my own yogurt, or I only shop at this portion of the supermarket, or I make everything from scratch. I don't understand why people can't do what I do. And the answer is people can't do what you do because they're not you and they don't have your life and genetics and goals and money and drive and all those other things, and that's okay.
Dr. Emma Beckett:But we get really attached to this idea of I found it works for me. I really want to share it with you, and not even from a perspective of people trying to sell you nonsense. Just people genuinely think they are helping you. And one thing we need to detach from the conversation about what is useful information to let through your filter it's intent, because someone intending good and someone intending harm doesn't matter. They can still both be doing you harm if that advice is not compatible with your context.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:Very well said. I feel like we could talk forever, but I think this is a good place to wrap up this conversation, although I would love to have you on another time to keep this going in some way. But what? As I always ask my guests, what do you think is the missing ingredient in midlife?
Dr. Emma Beckett:So I actually think, without you knowing what I was going to say here, you have led us to this very well, because what I think the missing ingredient is is some unlearning. So we often focus on what we need to learn or change or do to move forward better, but what we really need to do is take a second to think about what do we need to unlearn that we've been taught? Because if we're layering new information on top of our old biases and our old misinformation and everything else that we've been cultured to believe, we can't move forward with any of that new information in a beneficial way, or that beneficial information will be tainted. And so some unlearning is what I want to see people adding to their midlife, because we're in that time where we have the power to unlearn and let go.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:Yes, yes, we do. I love that and we will have the link to your book and any other links in the show notes. But I want to say thank you so much for taking the time to join me today. It's been a fabulous conversation and, for anybody listening who wants more, emma's book is a great, great read, so thank you for writing it.
Dr. Emma Beckett:Thank you so much for having me. It's been a joy.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber:It has been All right. Thanks for listening everyone. Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of the midlife feast For more non diet, health, hormone and general midlife support. Click the link in the show notes to learn how you can work and learn from me. And if you enjoyed this episode and found it helpful, please consider leaving a review or subscribing, because it helps other women just like you find us and feel supported in midlife.
